ep35 | the artisan podcast | rickie ashman | experiential design

Rickie is a seasoned Creative Director & Design Director who successfully leads 360-degree campaigns for high-profile clients and turns big-picture ideas into compelling multi-platform campaigns.  Together we talk about experiential design and what it takes to be an artisan in this field.

Find Rickie here: IG @littlecountryfox |  Linkedin | rickieashman.com

Katty

Rickie, so excited to have you here on the Artisan Podcast. I know we've known each other through Artisan for a long time, but this is the first time you and I are actually sitting down to have a chat.

 

Rickie

Yeah, I'm very excited to be here. Thank you for having me.  

 

Katty

How did you get started as a creative? And when did you know that being a creative was a passion for you? 

Rickie

I was always a doodler and a daydreamer, according to my teachers, and I got special permission when I was in middle school to doodle because the teacher saw that my grades were good.

In fact, I was at the top of my class in middle school, so they knew that it wasn't impeding my learning abilities. But, their one rule was that I had to doodle in a separate notebook and not in my class notes or in my textbook, which I was fond of doodling in. And flash forward to the beginning of my career I missed out on the opportunity to go to art school.

It was something that I had wanted to do, but I grew up in New Orleans and Hurricane Katrina hit towards the tail end of my high school year.

So, I think my parents were thinking practically when they guided me into going to business school for college. So, when I graduated, I think I ended up moving into a creative career through sheer force of will.

On my first job, I began to teach myself Photoshop through my early interest in art where I was learning how to color-correct photography and illustrations. And then, in my first job, our designer left the company and there was a hole to fill, and I volunteered to take it on and thus began my early career as a designer.

Katty

So that's pretty amazing that your teachers recognized the importance of doodling and didn't curtail that but actually gave you permission, if you will, to be able to do that.

Rickie

Yeah,  I think so. And I think, what also has really helped throughout my career is the ability to tell a story. And starting off as a wannabe illustrator, as a kid where I would draw out stories and plot lines in a linear comic book-like format, has always stuck with me.

I had a brief stint getting into creative writing in high school as well. So working on more of the advertising front, where oftentimes a lot of what we do is storytelling in a sense for both the client and the consumer to get the buy in. I think that's also helped ground me and my approach.

So doodling led to a good overall process for creative thinking. And I think it's a great mental exercise particularly, when you're having writer's block, shall we say, sometimes it's good to just, do something with your hands while your mind is working away.

While I doodle less these days, sometimes I find myself scribbling. In my work notes.

Katty

Love that. Yeah, I'm reading this book right now. Actually, not that far into it, but even in the first few chapters, it's called Your Brain on Art it talks a lot about just the connection of art and just, even the doodling piece of it, but the importance of just allowing your brain to travel and be able to do that.

It helps with writer's block. It helps with anything, really any kind of block but just that physical process, just what it does, the chemicals in your brain,  pretty amazing. 

So you moved from your love of illustration and you built on that and your love of design and you built on that. How did you get into experiential design? And how would you describe experiential design versus traditional creative work? 

Rickie

Yeah, I think  Again, really through happenstance when I began my career, I was working brand side. So I handled everything from print to digital to occasional photo shoot and video shoot production and concepting for the brand.

Early on in my career, I ended up making a jump from the retail brand side to a new creative agency called Matte Projects. And Matte is known for not just being a boutique creative agency, but also throwing their own events and music festivals in New York city.

So right at the beginning, I think of when brands were starting to realize that events were a great way to reach young people, I started working for an agency that I think began the new model of experiential agency.

What started off as throwing our own events as a way to advertise the agency and build an audience for the events that we would later on throw for our brands. I had my hand in thinking about programming, and talent pools and artist selection for events, as well as, pitching the event concepts to potential sponsors.

The experiential projects offered me, as a creative, an interesting chance to do a little bit of everything where on a content shoot, you might not have much print design, or digital design, or even interior design involved in the project. It can be a little routine after a while. I think experiential is nice in that given the scale of the project, you end up being able to touch multiple aspects of design. Which again keeps things always fun and challenging in the right way.

So on any given experiential project, you're design directing, you're directing the spatial environment, the look and feel prop sourcing, there's this stage element, thinking about the theatrics of the performance or the run of show for the guest experience. We like to throw around the phrase cocktail theater. If it's a dinner event or a party, what is entertaining people while they're in this beautiful house that you've created? It's a very 3d type of design experience, and I think the ability to have people experience your work in a physical format, it has always been exciting for me.

Whereas, on a content piece, you're viewing it online or on social media or maybe through a streaming platform, when you're actually there in the environment, hearing them, and seeing the sights and sounds, tasting the thematic menu, seeing the vignettes that we build I think it's all very exciting. 

And it's certainly, at least still now that we've come out of the pandemic, one of the primary ways of targeting young people, thankfully, so it still keeps me busy. I'm glad that we've been able to move back to physical experiences because they are always exciting projects.

I think that, again, the nice thing about experiential is that every project is so different. And,  oftentimes, I find the need to bring on a specialist to handle a certain element of the project. In some cases, we have a need for an illustrator, or an animator, or a motion graphics artist to create content or key art for the experience. So I'll look to find talent that can help express my creative vision or the clients’ hopes and dreams for the experience. 

I think one of the core challenges is that playing in the world of a brand, you have limits. So sometimes you have to use the client's colors and the client's look and feel. But in other cases, sometimes clients are looking to the agency and the creative team to dictate what the look and feel should be. So I worked on an event a few years ago for a jewelry brand where they gave us four creative parameters, but we had the opportunity to create some new elements using stock and vintage photos.

And I brought in a mixed media designer who created this really incredible collage art wall that really fit in with current trends in design, which in my background as a designer, I'm always trying to make sure that we are staying relevant, timeless, but relevant. So it's always exciting when I can make the design work feel a little bit more edgy.

Sometimes we do templatize our approach on things like printed directional signage and menus, things that are the necessary evils of any branded event. But it's always exciting for me when my designer is able to own elements like that and have fun with them and create something that, has a little bit more of an editorial feel.

Even with digital, we're oftentimes looking to build a microsite, or maybe some events have a digital experience component. So there are so many ways that I'll bring on a prop stylist every now and then, or a photographer, or filmmaker for a project. So it's exciting how collaborative and how expansive experiential projects can be because they allow you to work with so many various types of creative individuals across the world.

Katty

 So you said two things I want to dive into a little bit more. First of all, I love that you brought in vintage while you were talking about trends and staying relevant, and for marrying the two together there, I thought that was fantastic. So you talked about always wanting to be relevant and stay relevant and just know what the new design trends are.

Can you share a little bit about what are some of the trends that you're seeing? And a second question to dovetail from there,  for somebody just starting out in their path, where should they go to learn about whatever new trends are if they're not going the traditional school route? \

Rickie

Yeah, I think, when I work with younger designers and look at where they are coming out of design school or, in some cases, people do come from non-traditional routes.  I've worked with a lot of people in experiential who've come from the world of architecture, or in some cases they worked early on in their career as a producers, but, they are creative problem solvers, so they can merge into a creative director or assistant creative director role.

I think it's key for anyone young to try to train their eye from early on. So really being present and mindful of the world around them and noticing patterns, also training their eye around things that reflect their personality.

I think my vision of what is beautiful or cool is very biased, shall we say, based on my background growing up in New Orleans and in Tokyo and living in New York City and London. I feel it's a particular vision of how things should be. And it's certainly not the only or right way, so I've tried to craft it around, what excites and inspires me.

And certainly, what I was influenced by as a young person, I think, anyone starting off should not be afraid to reflect on what they enjoy and what excites them, because it's always different for all of us. I find it helpful to start by being conscious of what you can do and trying to push yourself 10 or 30 percent to do more.

So for me, because I taught myself design, I had to work with those parameters early on. If I  didn't have the technical skill, I would try to learn it, if I could do it in a reasonable timeframe for the sake of the project. And then if not find a specialist to assist me. But then I could continually grow and learn while not staying stagnant or limiting myself necessarily to, to what my skill set was at the time.

I think in terms of current trends, I think font selection is certainly one of the things that live and breathe with the changing of the times. The music industry, I feel is always a great place to start off by seeing what artists are doing in their music videos, on their album art, in their merchandise, and tour posters.  I think there, there's such a need for today's musicians to stand out and attune to the current zeitgeist, that they're oftentimes very on-trend. Coming from a little bit of working in the music industry, I've always found most exciting that as a designer, you tend to get to do the most, authentic and interesting things for artists because they're all willing to be, they're also creative, so there's less pushback than when you're working with the brand and they are worried that something that they might not have seen before is or isn't the right path.

I think, again, there's a need to be mindful and present in the world around you, so by building our eye around what inspires us, we can push ourselves to grow without moving far away from who we are trying to conform to specifically a trend in the design ecosystem.

But I think anyone starting off should just strive to enjoy what they do, and pay attention to the things that inspire them, and build their toolkit around their own personality and vision. 

Katty

I love that. What I'm hearing is it's not necessarily to just stay in the one lane that you're in, but really allow everything around you, whether it be music or other artists or museums and stuff like just take a little bit from everything to then build what your own style is or whatever your what your calling card is going to be around that. 

Rickie

Totally. And I think the key thing too is it's important for a creator to push themselves out of their comfort zone. I think there's the old saying, don't judge a book by its cover. But I find sometimes I will be inspired in a way that, that I didn't normally anticipate by going to an event or watching a movie or reading a book or going to an art show that I wouldn't have initially sought out on my own in some cases.

I go with friends and they're the impetus for discovery and other times, the opportunity presents itself and I make a conscious decision to try it even if I suspect that it may not be for me.

But I found in life that you never know where you need to pull a reference from. So it's helpful to know a little bit of everything and not overly specialize. Always be learning and looking, I think, at the world around you is crucial.

Katty

Yeah, I love that. Have an infinite mind. Be open to whatever the stimulus is.

But you brought up the opportunity that you had to live in a few different places, different countries, and also travel.  I find that inspiration for me comes from travel. Anytime I'm within a different culture or taste different foods or things that I didn't even know I would find inspiration or inspiring I come back to over the years and build the richness of the tapestry of my experiences.

Do you find that's really influenced you as a creative? The fact that you've been able to be exposed from New Orleans to Japan and to New York and places in between,

Rickie 

Totally. I think for better or for worse, it's certainly been one of the biggest imprints  on my taste, my sensibilities, and my personality.

Everyone's heard of New Orleans, but we're still a relatively small city in the American South. So there are some limiting factors growing up there that caused me to want to set out and explore the world around me.

And I was fortunate in high school to have the opportunity to travel to Taiwan and study Chinese opera, which was a more unexpected journey to escape the American South and see something else in the world. But certainly led me to make the decision to pursue part of my university career in Japan, which of course if any designers listening to this don't know, Japanese design is immensely iconic and I think particularly influential in the world of packaging.

So when I lived in Tokyo, even as a young person before I knew that I would work in design I was very cognizant of what I was seeing and experiencing and noticing the variations between the U. S. and foreign markets and, I think what dawned me, and I think anyone who travels probably has these same thoughts, but you know what are the differences that I love to bring back to make something, better back home.

And then, even in the U. S., I think New York, New Orleans, L. A., all three cities are so culturally different. I'm, I think I've been fortunate to have lived in so many different places to broaden my horizons and, again, have a more holistic view of the country what feels right for New York may not work in a market like New Orleans or resonate in middle America.

And I think it's important for us all to be inclusive in our thinking and be aware that the world is a much bigger place, and we have to account, I think, for other ways of thinking beyond our own when we design or particularly work in marketing where our work can impact culture or consumer behavior and how do we use our powers as creative minds to problem solve in ways that can improve the world or improve culture, add to add some sense of maybe for lack of a better word, beauty to the world beyond simply trying to sell or achieve a client KPI.

I think I've been fortunate working more on the boutique front to have more flexibility when it comes to ideating so that we can work on solutions to client needs that, are culturally interesting and maybe beneficial to society versus being purely profit-driven.

Katty

Beautiful. So having a cause or a ripple effect, like the impact that message can have is so important.

Rickie

I think we all need to be mindful because we live in a world that needs our problem-solving to make it better. So I think having that holistic thought process where we understand the impact of what we do is crucial and it's important that we don't lose that.

I think it's important for us to all stop and smell the roses throughout our career to keep ourselves in check. The only people who can make oneself better is themselves. 

Katty

Wise words. Yes, definitely, Rickie. Gotta look inwards and then to be able to look out outwards, right?   

You talked earlier about, working with brands and sometimes just brand guides and style guides and just the boundaries that sometimes that offers and then trying to push those boundaries but still staying within, what's right for the brand, the colors, the fonts, the messaging, all of that.

What's the fine line in that dance between taking a brand or a client, for that matter, and showing them something that maybe they've not thought of or not seen, or maybe it's in their blind spot and they didn't even realize that they wanted it? And still stay within those boundaries and those parameters that have been created.

And then how do you bounce back from that if the idea falls flat or if they're not going to go for it, or if they give feedback that's contrary to what you wanted it to be? How do you do that? How do you dance that dance? Because I would imagine that's such an important piece of what you do is you want to show a side that maybe somebody hasn't seen. But yet you have to be ready that they may not want to go there.

Rickie

 Totally. I think that's the eternal dance of working on the agency side as a creative, as mitigating client feedback. I think there is a big level of empathy and psychology in understanding human thinking when receiving feedback. Sometimes we don't receive all of the information from the client to understand why they might make a certain request or decide to go with the safer alternative.

But I think in my career, I've learned that sometimes you can push and it's really about reading the room and understanding the client. Some clients do want to be pushed and they want to be reminded that they are working with a creative or agency because of their experience level, their taste, their expertise.

Other times, I've had to accept that the solution may not be my favorite choice, but you may just have to settle with the fact that it is what it is and try to make the most of it. And, design within those parameters to make something that you know you as a creative won't hate or feel uninspired by.

But I try to always keep an open mind. If a client chooses path A or path B, I try to always go in suggesting routes that either way I could make work.  And I'm fortunate right now. My team and I are working on a project that the client chose. my favorite my favorite path in, and we've been lucky in that they've been really receptive to our direction which is rare.

Sometimes that's a challenge that I face with my internal team. Not everyone is creative. Not everyone can see or imagine the final piece of creative based on the upfront description that we give in the beginning of the project. And I think there's a lot of, in any art form,  rationalization, contextualization, and strategy that's needed to go into selling an idea.

So I try to work closely with my strategist team or strategist, depending on the size of the team,  to build that breadcrumb trail into the idea so that the client feels confident that it's the right choice and there's the rationale and there's an explanation of the thinking.

And anyone starting off in their creative field, I think younger creatives are oftentimes pitching internally. But if they can create that rationalized approach and that storytelling, there's a greater chance that their idea will be bought, or heard, or considered. And, 14 years in, I still have ideas that get shot down and sometimes it's just the way that it is.

And I think going with the flow is a good mentality to have and turning to roll with the punches, but, it's what makes our life interesting. 

Katty

I think you said that really well.  Not everybody has that gift, though, to be able to see the end result and to see the full picture. They can see this part of it, but not the entirety. So to have somebody like yourself or your team to be able to paint what that picture looks like is definitely a gift.

You talked about collaborating with quite a few people in this conversation at various stages, whether it was the strategist or the person who pulled in the vintage pieces together for you. When you're hiring or you're looking to collaborate, what's most important to you? Is it their skills? Is it the culture fit? What do you look for when you're looking to add to your team? 

Rickie,

I think in my case.  as a creative it's really about who aligns most with the vision. That's where I start. And then there's a budget exercise, which is again, the reality check at times. It's always surprising sometimes, I'll find that someone that I want to work with is really affordable, just it's the right time and place and they're open to collaboration, and other times, their value exceeds the scope available for the project.

And I'll have to work with my team to figure out, who is possible.

But as far as vetting, I think on the designer front, I'd say portfolio is important, followed by culture fit knowing who can handle a high-stress environment or who might be client-facing are questions that I've asked recently, as I've looked to bringing on extra hands on the emerging or younger designer front.

I think it's trying to find the diamond in the rough, the expectation for young talent is not that they're perfect, but that they have potential and that they have drive. I think one thing of value I've learned building my career early on in New York is to be hungry and to be precocious.

So it's always good to try to be cross-functional to aid other team members oftentimes, in my case, it's doing copywriting when we don't have a copywriter on staff or assisting with sourcing or something like that.

But I think you know, I think regardless of what your role is in a company, I think if you can be that person that has vision and wants to be helpful and wants to have your voice heard. Expressing that in a thoughtful way is the best ticket to moving up the ranks.

Katty

Yeah, I think that's, those are great pointers for somebody who's just starting out.

I think what you said about looking for somebody who has potential, and that's huge right, to be able to as you're interviewing someone or as you know as a creative interviewing to be able to message out what that potential looks like and how they can do, variety of things that how they can juggle how can they how they can deal with a stressful environment or deal with change, for that matter, like being agile is critical in this day and age.

Rickie, I want to thank you for the time that you've taken to be here and just sharing your journey with us. Before I let you go though, what are three lessons that you've learned in your path in addition to everything you've shared that a young creative listening right now could really just latch onto and say ....this is what I need to go do.

Rickie

I think my first would certainly be around self-education.  

As often as you can, whether you're in college or just starting off in your career and don't necessarily have the level of responsibility as more senior employees, use that time to better yourself because nothing will help you more in life. I'd say whether it's learning a new language or an instrument, anything creative you can do that you enjoy and that you're inspired by, take the time when you have it.

I think the second suggestion I would make would be around networking and learning the art of conversation. There are two areas where that can help you in your career. One is of course building your contact sheet, whether it's other creatives who you could potentially work with one day.

Doesn't necessarily have to be upward networking with purely work-related contacts. I think the second aspect of that is building conversation skills so that you can grow to sell your ideas to your team or your client or communicate ideas effectively.

The third suggestion is always keeping an open mind and pushing yourself out of your comfort zone. I think we've all encountered moments in our lives where someone said that they just don't like something because they've never experienced it in a way that's made them enjoyable, but I challenge everyone to reframe their brain to think ….I could like it.I just haven't found the right way in yet.

Maybe a good example of this is country music. A lot of people, cliche say when you ask them what their favorite music is, Oh, I like a little bit of everything except for country and we all know what they mean.

But in the genre of country, there's a vintage country folk more indie singer songwriter, more contemporary. Beyonce now has a country song. I think in culture it's constantly evolving and it's so expansive that to place those limiters on ourselves, prevents us from truly experiencing life.

And again, when we work on projects, you never know when you might need to pull an information thread from something that you've experienced and didn't expect to. In my case, I went to Burning Man one year with a friend on a whim and I fully worried that I would have a terrible time.

And lo and behold, I had a great time and it wasn't the time that I expected. And I was really surprised by how much art and creativity was expressed. And anyone who's gone will say, of course, but had I not gone, I would have remained biased against something that I really didn't know anything about.

And particularly for experiential where I look to design, um, activations around this notion of emotional presence. It's so helpful to have this vast knowledge pool that's abstract and, unfiltered because it allows me to come up with new combinations of ideas that allow for my work to, I think, truly sing.

Katty

Great lessons, regardless of whether you're creative or not, right? Self-education, communication skills, being open-minded. I think those are great life lessons, regardless of whatever path somebody takes.

So thank you for that. 

 

Rickie

Yeah, of course. Thank you so much again for having me. Hopefully, This is helpful to anyone starting off in their career, but I definitely have a lot of, um, empathy and respect for anyone pursuing a creative career because it does require a lot of self-determination to rise to the occasion, shall we say.

Always love meeting and working with young talent and seeing them grow in their career. So hopefully this information will be helpful to someone one day.

I am available on Instagram, my handle is @littlecountryfox and always available through LinkedIn or I have a semblance of a website that I'm terrible at updating, but my email is on there.

So I'm always happy to answer questions to anyone who may want to learn more about the agency life or creative process.